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Somebody’s Dad Turns Up On Tonight’s HEROES!! Too Late??

HEROES IS DEAD! by Redfive!	Oct 13th, 2008 02:58:41 AM
I Saw the entire first season in 3 large installments and wasn't remotely impressed.I couldn't stand Ali Larter or her character either.Pull a Nail in it ITS DONE.
I've said it before by Bloo	Oct 13th, 2008 03:00:33 AM
I'll say it again remove Kring and hire Paul Dini, and McCorkle and Shooney (from Sky High and Kim Possible) pay them whatever it takes I'm watching every week and it's fun mindless distraction but well let's just leave it at but however S3 of Lost was slow and boring, not idiot plot, but certainly not a GREAT start and looked how that ended so maybe there is hope
i believe the correct term is idiot ball by mrgreentheplant	Oct 13th, 2008 03:09:25 AM
as in "who's carrying the idiot ball this week"?
I still have hope... by Hamtaro Hentai	Oct 13th, 2008 03:09:42 AM
Because after football season is over, there won't be anything on after Chuck on monday. Except for video games.
I've been trying by David Lazarus Long	Oct 13th, 2008 03:12:57 AM
But it really is getting hard. I can excuse a lot, and I mean A. FREAKING. LOT. There is no direction left. With all these incredible superpowers floating about, they're still stalling any kind of confrontation between the big guns. What's with all the fist fighting? THESE PEOPLE CAN THROW FIREBALLS! Let them throw some fireballs for a change and I might be more entertained. On a sidenote, Zachary Quinto is amazing and I feel more and more that he hasn't been used to his full potential. The rest are still hacks and I'm losing interest.
by wampa_one	Oct 13th, 2008 03:13:17 AM
Heroes will continue to flourish despite what you haters say. Many people think the first few episodes are already a vast improvement over Season 2.
Max Cherry is a Patrelli! by Xiphos_2	Oct 13th, 2008 03:16:55 AM
still don't care that much, but getting Robert Forster on board does get my attention a little.
read the writing on the walls by Brians Life	Oct 13th, 2008 03:17:36 AM
This show didn't deserve a third season. It's not being a "hater" if the thing you're baggin' on ACTUALLY does suck.
Time travel overuse by David Lazarus Long	Oct 13th, 2008 03:18:21 AM
is also killing it very quickly. If Peter and Hiro can time travel AND change the past, then it's a simple matter of figuring out what to go back and prevent. If they actually used some cause and effect with the intricacies of time-travel and various butterfly effects that can be caused, instead of jumping around like freaking morons and doing whatever they feel like and not having any purpose and then deciding (in Hiro's case) "Well, I don't want to screw it up any WORSE, so I'll stop all together instead of logically determining a solution" or (in Peter's case), "I'm freaking braindead so I'll just do whatever I feel like and screw shit up even worse." And meanwhile everyone else is being retarded and none of it matters, because at any second the writers could say "FUTURE CHANGE" and then nothing they've built up exists anymore and they start from scratch with new idiots with A) awesome powers they will never use or B) stupid powers they use all the time until Sylar (now Peter) steals them and then doesn't use them ever. SHEESH.
My impression... by Brians Life	Oct 13th, 2008 03:21:56 AM
...of all the current fans of this show. Stop being such haters. It doesn't have to be Shakespeare! Haters! Stop hating. You wanna blow this for us!?! Hey, I don't require competent storytelling or interesting character arcs in order to be entertained. So long as you tell me that you're making a show about something comic booky I'll be there with bells on. But why do the haters, have to be hating!?! Why don't they get that this show rules!?! It rules like Captain Power ruled! They don't get it...they just hate. Haters. Hatin'....ohhhh...wasn't it so cool when Hiro stopped time and walked thru the girls speed lines. OHHHH....she said SPEEDSTER. I know what that means. OHHHHHHH! The show had a decent first season....haven't watched an ep of this one since the premiere. Later, Turkeys
Herc. You're a Fag... by Fiend1138	Oct 13th, 2008 03:22:15 AM
You really need to keep in mind that the worst Heroes episode is still better then 95% of most television. People really critique this show waaaayyy too much. It's entertainment based on super heroes. It ain't a fuckin' reality show. Get over it.
Cliffhanger ending last season by David Lazarus Long	Oct 13th, 2008 03:23:17 AM
Do you think they were going to have it be a time-traveling Peter from the future that shot Nathan? Obviously not, because of the "alternate ending" that wasn't used. So that means, for sure, that they are PULLING THIS SHIT OUT THEIR ASSES. And not doing a very good job. This is far worse than any of Lost's slumps, and there were a few 4-5 episode stretches there that REEKED of retcon bullshit. This show should be renamed "RETCON HEROES" Mama Petrelli to Sylar: "Oh yea I'm actually your mother and your father is still alive and you've been trying to kill your brother and actually this is just a dream and you're really only 12 years old but your power is to imagine crappy futures." /rant
STICK A FORK IN IT!!!! by Mr Spork	Oct 13th, 2008 03:40:45 AM
Heroes is done.
Mr Spork... by Fiend1138	Oct 13th, 2008 03:50:54 AM
Stick a dick in you... you're done...
I don't know what to believe! by HellKing	Oct 13th, 2008 03:51:26 AM
I was at Comic Con and they moved the Heroes panel this year to Hall H which the largest hall and it was jammed packed. People were spending the night outside just to get into the panel. Same with Sarah Connor but wasn't in a large room. But there was a very long line that snaked around the building. The majority couldn't get in. So I'm tending to believe the TV ratings system doesn't work and accurately reflect how many people are really watching.
You're a fag?? by Scapulawings	Oct 13th, 2008 03:53:26 AM
Fag, huh? What are you, 12?
i love robert forester by bacci40	Oct 13th, 2008 04:01:00 AM
but yes...its too late for him to save the show
Nothing Worse by Athanatos	Oct 13th, 2008 04:02:47 AM
Than wasted potential. I don't think the wirters have any idea where they are going with this show, I for one will give it a few more eps seeing as I've come this far, hoping against all hope that something good will come out of this show.
David Lazarus Long... by cripeman	Oct 13th, 2008 04:05:03 AM
Perfect summation of the way the show "works" I had high hopes for it....without some major battles...matrix style stuff... I'll be tutrning on the playstation during heroes.
Sad by Volstaff	Oct 13th, 2008 04:10:59 AM
I was dissapointed with the ending of the first season, but I chalked that up to them using up their effects budget.. What killed the show is the best creative people from the first season moved onto to other things, leaving Kring and his fellow hack writers, and it shows. Saying the worst Heroes episodes are better than other tv is ridiculous. Better than what, The Biggest Loser?The Hills?Knight Rider?That's like saying dog shit smells better than elephant shit. I haven't stopped watching yet, but it's been relegated to background noise while I do other things like clean house. The fanatics can say what they want, but the ratings tell the tale, this show is going under.
HellKing by bacci40	Oct 13th, 2008 04:12:30 AM
the hall holds what, 5k? ratings are judged in the millions...so the show has some hardcore fans...but it needs to cater to the masses...and it lost a ton last season...the strike soured alot of people on tv, and the reality shows and the lack of good shows have soured more, as they find better ways to spend their leisure time...add to that the ability to watch shows when you want and where you want, thanks to tivo, computers and ipods, and you have the perfect storm...tv has a 5 year window to get its act together, or it will face the same problems that the music industry now faces and the movie industry will face....and i agree that kring must step down as show runner...there are many who can take his place who understand how to handle a show like this...my personal choices are jms or whedon...or go totally crazy and get warren ellison
Fiend1138 by Mr Spork	Oct 13th, 2008 04:26:36 AM
No, I stuck my dick in your mom. She squeals like the pig she is.
Herc by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 04:32:52 AM
Oh, get over yourself - 'wah, the flying effects were bad'. Perhaps because they spent so much money on an INCREDIBLE LOOKING EXPLOSION. Jesus Christ - what would you prefer measured up effects wise?
point by NudeandAroused	Oct 13th, 2008 04:33:22 AM
For someone who has "Given up on the show," or "joined the multitude" who have bailed, you sure are talking about it a lot.
Heroes by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 04:34:45 AM
I'll say it again, I like show and I see the flaws. There are haters who post here, because you 150% hate the show yet continue to watch and provoke people - I have no time for you. But there are plenty of folks who genuinely want the show to get better, and while I don't agree with them I like debating with them because they care. And, to be honest, if Hiro doesn't shape up soon and do something that isn't goofy I'm gonna be griping about the show too.
Herc, again by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 04:36:42 AM
Screw you - just because you're being a whiny little bitch who doesn't like the show does not give you the right to spoil us on a huge twist. That's a major dick move, sir - the equivilent of me going and throwing out the spoilers I know for Lost Season Five... only I wouldn't because I don't want to tarnish the experience for everyone else. And after the pathetic display by you and Moriarty with the Lost S3 teasing, and subsequent shutting down of the talkbacks, this just shows you as a hypocrite.
Having Max Cherry come on board is good by The McPoyle Clan	Oct 13th, 2008 04:40:02 AM
but we'll see what kind of character he turns out to be. Instead of just being a "hater," here is a bit of constructive criticism for the writers -- cut down on the number of characters in the show, and concentrate on making the ones that remain act logically. Parkman has always been useless and is now stuck in a retread plot. Nikki, or whatever her name is now, is good for T&A, but little else. The guy that plays Peter can barely handle one role, let alone two, so get rid of future Peter. The Fly/Narrator dude was another weak initial character who shouldn't have survived past season one. Take his teary fsck buddy with him. The relationships between Hiro/Ando and HRG/Claire are the only ones that have ever remotely resonated with the audience. Don't ruin them.
The McPoyle Clan by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 04:48:15 AM
Sir, I always thought that they should only use four regulars per episode. Keep the stories small, self-contained with bits of overlap. Then you don't have too much happening at once, and stories can breathe. I know, for instance, that Maya could benefit from a lot of her story arc happening in one ep.
I haven't watched... by BacardiRocky	Oct 13th, 2008 04:52:43 AM
....an episode of Season 3 yet, I wait till quite a few are online so I can go ahead and watch them back t back in one full swoop. Reading some of these talk backs doesn't make me look forward to watching it though. It can't be as bad as the second "season," can it? Oh well, if its that bad, might as well wait till next year when Lost comes back. I always wanted to like Heroes, but I feel they almost jumped the shark last season with the Copycat chick and the Telemundo twins. Is Mya back this season, she was only good to look at, but her character sucked "webbos."
BacardiRocky by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 04:55:52 AM
It's not as bad as the second season and, from me, it's not bad at all. A lot happens, maybe too much, but a lot of the characters interact more and there's some awesome plot twists.
All these things that I have done by slowgraffiti	Oct 13th, 2008 05:04:41 AM
Yes, this show is not as good as it once was. Absolutely. BUT! Season 2 wasn't terrible, it was just too slow and brooding. You can't blame them for trying to take the formula that made the first season work and try to lean on it even more. It didn't work. It didn't work at all, but there were still some great moments. I'll agree with everyone who says this is better than most things on TV. I love the characters. I love Sylar, I love Bennet, I love Hiro. I am happy to get to see them for 40 minutes a week when I can. I do believe that Ali Larter must be fucking the creative staff to still be in this show and I've hated her storylines from day one, but what can you do? Herc, the showdown with Sylar in the future last week was one of the best moments of the show! It could have been bigger with a bunch of crazy shit, but it was still very emotionally and epic. Also, the key is that Peter had to learn how to 'access' Sylar's power, not get it, even though that's what everyone but Sylar said. Sure, it's like a soap opera with super heroes. How is that a bad thing! There's never been anything like it. And for what it's worth, the first 3 and a half seasons of Lost were horrible. It was only after the death of Mr. Eko did it really evolve into such an amazing show. Thank you Brian K. Vaughn and Co. I knew everything that happened in Lost and Heroes before I started to watch them. Knowing what happened in Lost took away the only power it had, surprise. Knowing what happened in Heroes only made it better, anticapating how things would work out even though I knew they would. Just pointing that out. Lost has become something amazing in it's past 30 or so episodes, but it started out as a crock of shit. Heroes may be heading towards a crock of shit, but I just don't think so. There are always great moments that make it all worth it. HRG putting Elle in the tub of water at the end of the second season!!! Come on! I didn't like the second season while it aired, and I've really thought that this season was getting a lot better. A future where everyone can have powers? Sylar a Petrelli? Sylar AND FUCKING HRG AS PARTNERS!!! There is some really good stuff coming. It doesn't have as talented of a writing staff as say, 30 Rock, but this is a drama. A drama about people who can fly and time travel and all that crap The only problem I think any of us fanboys have with the suspension of disbelief is that they did such an amazing job of tying everything together in the first season.
Mr. Zeddemore by BacardiRocky	Oct 13th, 2008 05:06:56 AM
You mention that a lot of the characters interact more, and to me that has always been a major problem with the show. There should have been a slower build up to these characters interacting. I thought season one was OK with how it ended with all the characters ending up in NY fighting Skylar, but I think the show makes the situations and the meeting of these characters too convenient. Its almost as if the Heroes universe is one small town, like Jericho Kansas.
I meant to write... by BacardiRocky	Oct 13th, 2008 05:08:01 AM
Sylar. stupid typos
Whuh? by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 05:08:25 AM
I sort of agree, but the slow-build up was designed to bring them all together. Now that they know about each other, it stretches logic for them to rarely cross paths.
why is hiro now comic relief? by Executor	Oct 13th, 2008 05:41:29 AM
I mean, he was always kind of precious, but this season it's ridiculous. He matured so much last season, learned how to use a sword, defeated an immortal enemy (which, in a convenient and dumb "idiot plot", he has to dig him up again, thereby negating everything he did LAST season.) But this season, what's with the cutesy shit with the "speedster". Hiro has seen the future. He knows what will happen if the formula gets in the wrong hands. After the bitch punched him out in episode 1 he should have grabbed a sword, teleported to her, stopped time, and cut off her friggin head when she's at normal speed in frozen time. Then, Hiro can agonize about how he had to cut off a bitch's head to save the world. Now THAT'S action AND drama!!!!
Wait a minute.... a guy who can create black holes?!!?! by IAmMrMonkey!	Oct 13th, 2008 05:41:35 AM
Um... right. As if two guys who can absorb every power ever, and a bunch of immortals weren't powerful enough. Now we have a guy who can create black holes. Who are these writers?!
Black H#oles by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 05:47:42 AM
Yeah, that's NBC promo writers... I don't think we're actually going to see someone create 'black holes' so much as manipulate the atmosphere.
The fans Fucked up the show. by theycallmemrglass	Oct 13th, 2008 06:05:22 AM
Because most people here think they know what they fucking want to see. Then the fucking idiot film makers think, oh lets give them more of this and this and oh yeah much much more of that, they'll be happy. Kring admitted it himself, he said we heard you and we promise more in the next season. Fucking idiot. Writers have to write what they feel is right not waht we feel is fucking right. Are we fucking film makers? Are we writers? No, we're just fucking fans who like to talk and yeah we say what we want to say but dont take us literally. Sigh. Either that, or the writers are really just shit. I know some of the original writers of the far superior first season left show but shit, Heroes really has lost the plot now. All of the character developments have been utterly ruined. The only ultra cool people in this show are Sylar and Noah Bennet. I am continuing to watch this show now only to see those 2 grace the screen with class, in front of an abyss of shit in the background.
Heroes died about two thirds by kwisatzhaderach	Oct 13th, 2008 06:05:56 AM
of the way through the first season. Shame.
Now that's what I call a "sticky situation" by V'Shael	Oct 13th, 2008 06:16:02 AM
Where's my ice-cream? And why can't we wake up from this nightmare?
Ratings by Alientoast	Oct 13th, 2008 06:18:23 AM
Monday Night Football is killing the Monday night shows
The show was much better last week by Itchy	Oct 13th, 2008 06:29:33 AM
seriously. I'm not quite ready to write this show off ... but the absolute stupidity in the writing is brutal. They broke the first rule of comic book movies ... they treated their audience like idiots. The characters just don't make any sense sometimes, and the time travel device is just brutally illogical. Rather than time travel, they should have left "the future" with the ability Isaac had ... just painting it. I'm totally lost when Peter from 4 years, 3 months, 1 day and 12 seconds in the future shows up to get in a fight with Peter from 3 years, 2 months, 14 days, 12 hours and 2 seconds in the future.
The plot of Volume IV: by ElPaw	Oct 13th, 2008 06:34:41 AM
Hiro travels to the future to see (or rather, not see) that the world has been destroyed by a black hole. Meanwhile a virus/formula is destroying all the newly created artificial heroes, who took the formula of Volume III. And Clairebear is in love with someone at school.
Itchy by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 06:35:13 AM
The future stuff is a tad difficult to understand, but it does seem odd that people are using that to attack the show. It's a plot-device, nothing more.
ElPaw by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 06:37:18 AM
One snag, they're now having Claire as a pro-active character with no time for romance. If you want to gripe, at least gripe about what the show is doing rather than what it used to do.
"unaware that others are closing in" by ElPaw	Oct 13th, 2008 06:37:51 AM
Would that be physicists from the LHC, looking to keep their monopoly on black hole generation?
The late great Steve Gerber by Pancho Straight	Oct 13th, 2008 06:44:32 AM
wrote a Defenders/Howard the duck crossover treasury edition (one of those big Life Magazine format comics) that features a supervillain with a chunk of black hole dark matter embedded in his check (really no stupider than DC's Atom having a piece of dwarf star matter in his belt buckle). So at one point the villain springs into action and initiates his black hole absorbtion power and Gerber wrote one of the greatest Marvel captions of all time and certainly one that had to make an end run around the comics code ti get published: "SUDDENLY... THE BLACK HOLE SUCKS!!!"
Pancho Straight by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 06:53:32 AM
Sir, that caption is awesome and your posting it is awesome. Fantastic!
I am so cruel by Pancho Straight	Oct 13th, 2008 06:56:36 AM
that it pleases me that I fucking love Heroes and am enjoying the hell out of the plot lite and special effects and action heavy third season that dozens of AICN talkbackers are hating on, whining about and mourning because they claim they wish it was better or lived up to their conception of the mid-point of the first season's potential. This gives me sadistic glee that I'm experiencing great pleasure from something that either aggravates you or makes so many of you sad. I'm not saying that I'm not sorry over experiencing such schadenfreude over your critical despair while I goggle wide-eyed in delight. But you know what they say, if you can't laugh at yourself, you have to laugh at other people. "Oh, but Pancho, don't you see, if they're going to do a comic book inspired TV series, why can't it be on a level of quality with the best comics ever written, not the mundane average crap that most comics are? And, oh, the middle part of season one, after they had all the characters introduced, produced a couple of the shows best episodes ever. Qhy can't EVERY episode be the best episode ever, like on Lost? Oh Pancho, don't you see that your liking something I dislike makes you inferior to me and my exquisite flavor... I mean, taste?" Yeah, I see what my hypothetical examples of something you might say are trying to say. Really, I just don't care. My life sucks in ways you can't imagine, but Heroes gives me an hour a week to be happy. Not that I'm that picky - actually the Chuck Heroes Boston Legal triple feature gives me three hours to feel pretty good. You have a problem with that, talk to my lawyer's hand or something.
Pancho Straight by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 07:00:27 AM
Dude, terrific post. And I'm with you on Boston Legal, I wish I had more time to watch that show... even if I do wish ever so hard that Shatner would pop up on Heroes
Not THAT bad... by Steepdog1	Oct 13th, 2008 07:01:38 AM
I really don't think the individual episodes have been that bad. I really don't see how they are that much worse than season one. what annoys me is that through three seasons, they seam to be using the same plot. Something is going to destroy the world, we get shown how the world will be if that happens, then the heroes randomly come together by the end of the season to stop it. We are on season three of the same f-ing formula. That's the lazy writing that's killing the show. I can deal with less than perfect effects and some "convenient" plot devices...but when you can't think of a new over-arcing plot for an entire seaon...that's just bad.
Hercules - I don't much care... by Pancho Straight	Oct 13th, 2008 07:05:59 AM
Sure it's a drag when the writer hosting the TB turns hater, and sure it's turning into a sour experience coming here reading all the Heroes hate every week. But I can enjoy a TV show without a talkback. Few of the shows I like best ever get AICn talkbacks anyway. If you really hate on this show that bad just man up and ignore the series the way you do with Supernatural and all the other geek fan favorite shows that never get talkbacks here. What are the last of the heroes fans and the most vocal haters going to do, continue the never-ending battle in the final heroes talkback and keep it going until they hit 10,000 posts? Or try to hijack one discussion per week the way the Supernatural fans do? That old AICN cliche "if you don't like it don't post here" applies to you too, Herc old pal. Now that you don't like Heroes anymore just stop writing about it and see if anyone notices or if anyone else at AICN posts one to take up the slack and get the clicks. Why aggravate yourself by having to write about something you don't like week after week. It's not like it's your job, right? That's just my opinion, Hercules. See you in the next SNL TB.
Pancho by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 07:08:46 AM
If the Heroes TB trend ends, I'm going to hijack the last Lost TB.
Thank you Mister Zed, that's nice of you to say by Pancho Straight	Oct 13th, 2008 07:18:14 AM
Boston legal is into it's final, short season - maybe eleven episodes to go, so if you have a VCR or DVR and the 45 minutes it takes to watching it while blipverting the ads, this is your chance to see how the series ends.p>Conversely, the series has now entered syndication and several local channels where I am seem to be airing it - and it also runs multiple nights per week in prime time on the basic cable ION TV network, if you don't mind watching the excellent first season episodes (with the beautiful Rhona Mitra, Monica Potter and Lake Bell). I just wish the syndication package included the final season episodes of The Practice that introduced Crane, Poole and Schmidt back when Alan Shore was a really complex and diabolical character. And I agree, Heroes should have at least one Star Trek veteran in the cast at all time. Hey, I think Jolene Blalock isn't very busy...
Even if you like the show by ChorleyFM	Oct 13th, 2008 07:18:53 AM
You have to admit there are a huge number of flaws, and it has wasted a lot of its potential. The main problem is that the show could have actually been very good if you had someone competent running the thing.
Mr. Z the last Lost TB could use some new blood. by Pancho Straight	Oct 13th, 2008 07:21:40 AM
http://www.aintitcool.com/node /36908 Drop by anytime. Sure, they'd like to keep it on topic, but if you'd like to chat about Heroes, Fringe, Life On Mars and so on, I think they'd be up for that. Especially the Farscape fans over there.
ChorleyFM by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 07:27:20 AM
Course I admit there are flaws, but every TV show I've ever watched had flaws. They just hit something in me that said 'fuck it' and watched anyway.
Kristen Bell is the only one who can save this show. by Volllllume3	Oct 13th, 2008 07:28:11 AM
Seriously just kill of everyone except for her, Adam, Hiro and Ando.
Volllllume3 by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 07:42:17 AM
So how would that work? Elle and Adam try to attack Hiro, he teleports away and/or stops time. Repeat each week.
too much too fast by orange cinema	Oct 13th, 2008 07:45:29 AM
they mishandled the major arc of the series: by saving the world in the first season, they set themselves up for defeat. how can you top that? maybe some talented writers could, but these guys obviously cannot. they should have had the 'world saving arc', stretch out over 3 seasons.
orange cinema by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 07:48:11 AM
No, they really shouldn't - you think Lost gets a lot of hate? Heroes would get a hundred times worse if they hadn't resolved that arc at the end of S1.
If I were in charge... by FlipPA	Oct 13th, 2008 07:49:13 AM
In fantasy TV world, if I were in charge, I'd bring in J. Michael Straczynski and let him have a go at an actual story arc for three more seasons... and have that be all.
I've said it before, I'll say it yet again.... by Psynapse	Oct 13th, 2008 07:52:17 AM
RATINGS not anyone's opinions will decide this show's fate. Given the (consistent) trend and direction they're heading, this show is on it's last legs to be sure. Bitch at the 'haters' all you want Heroes fans, you apparently don't have the numbers to keep it on the air for much longer so get over it already.
Well... by Volllllume3	Oct 13th, 2008 07:52:48 AM
You'd first introduce new characters. But those 4 are the only ones worth saving because they're the most interesting (I won't say complex) left on the show. I don't know if I would make Elle a villain, that would be too simple.
Volllllume3 by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 08:04:24 AM
Judging by how bad Hiro's storyline has been this season, I'd say he's one of the least interesting characters.
Psynapse by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 08:05:19 AM
Absolutely ridiculous - yes the ratings are falling, but it's hardly crisis point. Besides, name me a show that could stay off the air nine months and come back with equivilent ratings to where it left off.
Why do I bother? by seanny_d	Oct 13th, 2008 08:11:23 AM
I don't know. I really want to like this show. But it is a disaster of epic proportions. The biggest clue I had was after the "Five Years Gone" episode. Because NOTHING Hiro did after returning from the future would have changed the future that he saw. Yet, it did change. In fact, people who were originally NOT EVEN IN NEW YORK in the future, conveniently showed up during what passed for a "showdown" between Sylar and Peter. To me this showed a complete lack of consistency and a feeling of "Hey, you know what would be cool? If we did Days of Future Past" (Oh, I'm sorry. Kring never read a comic book. He comes up with these ideas on his own.) On top of that, the show falters because of the nature of the threats. The threats are always predetermined apocalyptic disasters that someone from the future needs to inform someone from the present about. Because apparently the people from the present are so fucking incompetent that they can't gather clues and information on their own to stop a disaster. No, it needs to have happened first and have someone from the future say "Listen, you know what, I think you need to stop this nuclear attack/virus/world splitting apart thing from happening." Why can't the characters be self-sufficient? Why can't they discover insidious plots on their own? Well, they can't because they're fucking incompetent. And maybe if this was a comedy, I'd enjoy watching a bunch of incompetent imbeciles walk around with superpowers, but a show that is attempting to be a drama, well, it sucks. On the bright side though, I am at least entertained this year when I watch it. Last year I was just BORED OUT OF MY MIND. This year, I'm entertained. The show is obnoxiously stupid, but at least it feels worth watching on a pure entertainment value. I just think its potential is so much more.
It's not just Heroes, Zeddemore - every other show by Pennsy	Oct 13th, 2008 08:11:57 AM
that took a hiatus after the strike was over has registered at least 25% less ratings - Chuck, Private Practice, Dirty Sexy Money, Pushing Daisies (which is the worst off; they've lost almost 55% of their freshman season audience). But Chuck isn't exactly helping matters as a lead-in on top of the issues that Heroes does have.
Pennsy by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 08:14:05 AM
Exactly. And yes, Hiro helped change the future. Hiro yelled 'virrain' at Nathan, so he was sufficiently down for when Claire turned on him. It was a subtle change that pushed Nathan to fly Peter into the sky - and as Sylar showed, Peter WOULD have destroyed a lot of New York.
I want to like the Show by Ashikaga	Oct 13th, 2008 08:22:42 AM
I saw the first two seasons on DVD and really enjoyed it. Now watching season 3 on tv the plot holes and lack of common sense are killing the show for me. im not jumping ship yet becuase i have 2 dvrs and space. push comes to shove and i am done
Put a sock in it, Herc. by LordEnigma	Oct 13th, 2008 08:24:38 AM
You can jump shit, but you will have to get right back in the Summer. When the show rebounds, people are happy, and you are on the outside looking in. Seriously, this is how the show works, and you have to be patient.
All shows quake in the presence of BSG. by Mr. Nice Gaius	Oct 13th, 2008 08:35:38 AM
Or MAD MEN. Either way is all I'm saying. Sorry HEROES fans. I'm just stoking the fire...heh.
Kill off Peter and all of Ali Larter's chars by BigSteve03	Oct 13th, 2008 08:36:33 AM
and you have a good show again. The idiot plot devices they keep coming up with to keep Peter from being all powerful are really dragging down the show at this point. also, Ali Larter has consistantly had the worst story lines in the show. I dont care if she's the only female cast member who will get in her underwear week after week, she's a terrible actress with terrible storylines. Kill her and Peter off and this show would jump right back up to where it was season 1.
they need to by ZO	Oct 13th, 2008 08:52:56 AM
start really killing off characters not kill them and have them return two scenes later because of some blood the cast is too big as it is. start cutting it with some deaths
why? by movieManiac	Oct 13th, 2008 08:54:46 AM
why is Ali Larter even in the show? Because shes hot? What has she contributed from the beginning uptil this point that has mattered to anyone? Why is Nathan Petrelli doing? He was a political figure, but now hes doing nothing. What is this crap with Hiro and Ando, why can't he reach out to his other hero friends if this quest is so important. Has everything that has happened in the last two seasons been completely nullified? Does he have to go back to being a nitwit again? How easily Noah goes along with being Sylar's partner. And how did future Peter die with a fucking gunshot wound? How many times must we endure people drawing apocalyptic versions of the future or seeing the future just before the apocalypse...for once id like there to be some mystery surrounding the big questions. Would have been cool if no one knew what the formula was till later. Or know what happens. And seriously, did we really need cliche spiritual African man who makes Greg Grunberg walk his "spirit walk", refusing to answer any of his questions in anything but vague terms? This whole thing is bullshit. Kill off a bunch of characters. Write it better, and make people use the powers they fucking have in a logical way. Id love to see Hiro use his time travel, time stopping abilities and chain them up and really get that speedster bitch confused about where the heck she is. Who wants to see a show about heroes with superpowers and the intelligence of a monkey. sigh.
I'm done... by sfgeek	Oct 13th, 2008 08:57:47 AM
It took a bit of force from my thumb, but I did it... I deleted Heroes off of the DVR. Like many of you, it is just not worth the time any more. There is much better TV out there (maybe). Anyhow, if the season somehow redeems itself and gets "good" there is always Netflix.
Ali Larter by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 08:59:20 AM
She's on the show because she's a trooper, and acts the Hell out of her bad storylines.
OH DEAR GOD... by Sephiroid	Oct 13th, 2008 09:18:41 AM
Quit whining! I mean we have the "Kristen Bell will save us" guys (She's good looking. Other than that, no matter how much you see her on-screen, you won't get to fuck her...), We got the "Why don't they do this, instead of that" (It's a super-hero tv show dammit... It's not thesis on how would superheroes would be if they were real)
Doesn't the runner actually run like a girl? by jccalhoun	Oct 13th, 2008 09:19:46 AM
You would think that they would hire someone who could run well to play the role of a speedster but when the Haitian was around and she couldn't go superspeed it was embarrassing to see her run so poorly. The fact that half the cast is related just strains credibility too much. If every superhuman has superhuman kids it would mean that a large percentage of people would be super. If you have time travellers then it really makes it hard for the viewer to think, "Why don't they just go back in time and fix it?" and especially since all the stories involve time travel in the first place. Unfortunately, they haven't done anything to explain why they don't go back in time.
And we also got by Sephiroid	Oct 13th, 2008 09:20:35 AM
the guys going on "Lost is much better than Heroes" (Well DUH! But they are two different kinds of shows dammit!). And Herc...ok we get it! You are being paid to promote other shows... Enough already with your stupid excuses...!
Herc, where has your sense of fun gone? by nrn	Oct 13th, 2008 09:22:44 AM
Man Herc, you sure have changed over the past few years. Had this been Heroes S1 you would have been loving it and digging it. But after what people refer to as a "abysmal" season 2, you aren't even giving this show a chance anymore... Nor are any of you haters who are talking about how stupid the writing has gotten etc, about how peter/hiro should just continually travel back in time to fix things, and its stupid that they don't. You complain when Sylar is turned into a good guy with a son saying its stupid. You complain about everything! Why do you even watch this show anymore if all you are going to do is complain. Let me tell you something. I am the majority when I tell you this. All the haters that come here and post about how shitty this season is take note. Heroes is the SAME fucking show its always been. Those of you talking about lazy writing need to wake the fuck up. The writing has been the same on Heroes since S1 where everyone was retardedly not using their super power. Hell most of S1 was about people knowing that they had a Superpower, and pretending like they didn't. (I.E Everyone telling Peter he was crazy for umm I dunno the first 10 eps of S1~!) S3 now, has actually started giving us meat and exposition on these characters yet all you complainers can do is moan that its unrealistic. SUPERPOWERS are unrealistic. Get over it. Watch the show and enjoy it for what it is. Hell Sylar with a son has you up in arms, yet when ANGEL had a son (you know a vampire who umm has dead sperm?) everyone praised it as good writing. You need to get off your high horse and start watching tv like its TV again. Not like its supposed to be some magical window into a world thats supposed to be exactly how you would make the world if it was yours.
I DON'T SEE ANYONE by Sephiroid	Oct 13th, 2008 09:22:55 AM
trying to make sense out of a comic book plot (and there are some real ridiculous plots out there... "Brand New Day" anyone? Bottoline: It's a show. Yoy like it? Good. You don't? Just don't watch it so we can finally have some time off from all the bitchin'. GET. A. LIFE!
Fire Kring and the writers by veritasses	Oct 13th, 2008 09:25:49 AM
Heroes has the most potential I've seen in a show in a long time. The very idea of super powered beings fighting each other and against rogue organizations etc stokes emotions and imaginations in everyone (as shown by early season one ratings). But clearly - and I think even the hard core fans would agree - Kring has done an exceptionally atrocious job. Heroes might be the biggest bungling of an opportunity in the history of network TV. Put someone who's a competent scifi/fantasy writer, someone who understands the superhero myth and stories, and someone proven in charge and our collective faiths would be restored. I for one, wouldn't be against the folks behind Avatar/Airbender.
Umm, Not quite Mr. Z... by Psynapse	Oct 13th, 2008 09:26:44 AM
The ratings continue to slide down each weak (pun intended) of Season 3 IN ADDITION to the break incurred drop.
What you NEED TO KNOW about Heroes before giving up by smackfu	Oct 13th, 2008 09:33:57 AM
In Season 1, episodes 2, 3 and 4; it is PETER from the future who killed Molly's parents, and it's PETER who Parkman and the FBI agent chase down and confront as 'Sylar'. This is evidenced by a few things: 1. In season 3, it is Peter who has become obsessed with gaining Molly's power. 2. Molly's father was found frozen in episode s1e2, and neither Sylar nor present Peter have that ability yet. So it is 1 of the 2, either Peter or Sylar, who at some point will apparently take/copy Ali Larter's freezing ability, that have come back from the future to find Molly. 3. So far, it's been essentially established that Sylar never gets the 'go back and forth in time' power, even in the alternate timelines he never has that. Only Peter and Hiro have that. And finally, in s1e3, they GUN DOWN Sylar in a hallway, and he gets up and runs away. And at that point in the story Sylar still hasn't found Clair to steal that power. So again, the person they gunned down in the hallway, was either future Peter of future Sylar. And since they are building Peter up to be the villain, and Sylar can't time travel, this leaves Peter. Also interesting to note, is that the 'future Hiro' that introduces himself to Peter on the train in Season 1, may have actually been a villain too. He's dressed in the same 'villain' garb as the rest, slicked black hair, black leather, etc. He wants Peter to save the cheerleader not because of the explosion, or Sylar, it's because she's an integral part of that future war going on between the mutants and the normies. That scene, all this time, has been Hiro from the 'villain' leather squad, getting Peter to save the leader of his 'villain' leather squad. This shit has been all planned out, and I think if you see it through, you'll realize all the stuff you think is dumb now is part of a really big picture that will make season 1 and 2 even cooler once it's complete.
herc, you have become pitiful by nrn	Oct 13th, 2008 09:34:32 AM
Man Herc, you sure have changed over the past few years. Had this been Heroes S1 you would have been loving it and digging it. But after what people refer to as a "abysmal" season 2, you aren't even giving this show a chance anymore... Nor are any of you haters who are talking about how stupid the writing has gotten etc, about how peter/hiro should just continually travel back in time to fix things, and its stupid that they don't. You complain when Sylar is turned into a good guy with a son saying its stupid. You complain about everything! Why do you even watch this show anymore if all you are going to do is complain. Let me tell you something. I am the majority when I tell you this. All the haters that come here and post about how shitty this season is take note. Heroes is the SAME fucking show its always been. Those of you talking about lazy writing need to wake the fuck up. The writing has been the same on Heroes since S1 where everyone was retardedly not using their super power. Hell most of S1 was about people knowing that they had a Superpower, and pretending like they didn't. (I.E Everyone telling Peter he was crazy for umm I dunno the first 10 eps of S1~!) S3 now, has actually started giving us meat and exposition on these characters yet all you complainers can do is moan that its unrealistic. SUPERPOWERS are unrealistic. Get over it. Watch the show and enjoy it for what it is. Hell Sylar with a son has you up in arms, yet when ANGEL had a son (you know a vampire who umm has dead sperm?) everyone praised it as good writing. You need to get off your high horse and start watching tv like its TV again. Not like its supposed to be some magical window into a world thats supposed to be exactly how you would make the world if it was yours.
smackfu by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 09:36:18 AM
Only snag, Sylar DOES have a freezoing power. He showed it off in 1x21 'The Hard Part.' Cool theory other than that, and I do think they are going back to S1 and tying certain loose-ends up.
the 'save the cheerleader, save the world' thing by smackfu	Oct 13th, 2008 09:38:06 AM
has ALWAYS been about stopping the earth from splitting in two or whatever happens.
Why We Hate by Brock Samson	Oct 13th, 2008 09:40:30 AM
I don't hold anything against the people who still like this show, and think that it's better than ever. I don't think they're bad people. Just very easy to entertain. Because Herc actually managed to sum up the problem with the show with his "Idiot Plot" definition. This is precisely the problem with Heroes. No one actually does anything plausible, and all the characters exist to service the plot, no matter how much it ruins the characters. People liked Season 1 because it had real emotional impact, better acting, and a whole lot of potential. Then, Season 1 ended badly, and Season 2 was horrible. And you can't really blame the writers strike. Season 2 sucked from the first episode onward. Amnesia is a lazy crutch, and that's what Peter had right at the start of the season. Hiro never should have spent so much time in Japan. Clarie's story was essentially a reset. And lets not forget the terror twins. All pre-strike, all awful. This is not a recent development. Since the idiocy of the Season 1 finale, Heroes has been inexorably leading to the state it exists in now-a stupid, Sci-Fi channel original story that seems to think that SHOCKING reveals=Character development. I'm surprised anyone said that this show is "better than 95% of what's on TV". That excuse worked for the Simpsons in the early years of it's decline, and considering it was on Sunday nights, that was mostly true. Heroes is actually worse than 95% of the shows on Monday night. It's worse than Terminator, Prison Break, How I Met Your Mother, Chuck, Life, and that show about the nerds who like the hot girl that runs on CBS. So why do I still watch, and hate, on Heroes? Because Heroes is becoming a show that is fun to mock. It's so self-serious. It thinks it's deep when it's as shallow as a kiddie pool. It's attempts to be goofy, with Hiro and Ando are terrible as well. So terrible that it's actually hilarious to watch. And it's also funny watching people try to defend it. "Hey guys, sure the story makes no sense and the acting is terrible, but there was a big explosion!". I will continue to watch as heroes drives itself into the ground, and I will laugh at it, because it seems incapable of laughing at itself.
I'll have to rewatch that but even if he does have that power by smackfu	Oct 13th, 2008 09:44:24 AM
The guy Parkman shot in the hallway, was not present Sylar because he couldn't regenerate at that time. The person shot was from the future, and only Peter can regen AND time travel.
Smackfu and Future Peter/Sylar Wrong theory buddy. by nrn	Oct 13th, 2008 09:47:22 AM
Lets just take it as Sylar used Telekenetics to STOP the bullets, rather then he got shot... We already learned he was powerful enough to survive the fall from the top of the school roof with only a minor limp, so lets assume bullets just didn't work :) I think in the beggining they didn't know WHAT sylar was. I don't think it was somehow future peter.
Well said Brock Samson.... by Psynapse	Oct 13th, 2008 09:52:34 AM
I'm with you dude.
How bad is it? This bad.... by Psynapse	Oct 13th, 2008 09:58:44 AM
Question: What the hell is up with Heroes' ratings?! Where'd all the viewers go! -- Joel Ausiello: NBC is praying hoping a few million of them turn up on Oct. 13 when the live-plus-three-day DVR data starts to trickle in.
Smackfu, I wish you were writing the show. by V'Shael	Oct 13th, 2008 09:58:48 AM
That at least is a FAR better direction for the show, as well as being a damn nice plot point. But I think the truth is, that you're far more clever than the fucking tards who write for this show.
Here's the thing: by kingcello	Oct 13th, 2008 10:10:46 AM
The show is really not that worse than the first season. It's just that everyone was willing to overlook certain idiocies then because the show was "fresh."
Worse than Prison Break. by gotilk	Oct 13th, 2008 10:15:16 AM
All credibility just flew out the door. Sorry folks, this just isn't as bad as everyone is saying it is. It's a mess at times, but nope. It's not horrible, it's not bad. It isn't even poor. It's just not living up to your expectations OR season 1 for many people. But let's not confuse that with poor. Should we want better? Sure. Should we want more? We do. But the fingers are getting a bit heavy here.
I Agree With Your Assessment, Herc... by Aquatarkusman	Oct 13th, 2008 10:29:04 AM
... so try varying the shows that get talkbacks rather than generate pointless flame wars for a dying show.
P.S. I Am Exciting About Bubbles... by Aquatarkusman	Oct 13th, 2008 10:33:47 AM
... and his newfound ability to create singularities. Perhaps he should have developed that power before that one crazy crackhead in B'more started stealing all of the shit out of his mobile shopping cart-mall.
I also like Smackfu's theories, but writers just aren't smart en by turketron	Oct 13th, 2008 10:39:30 AM
And yeah, Sylar does have freezing abilities as shown in the episode where he made snow for his mom. Dunno why he's so bullet resistant, but he also survived getting shot by Noah in season 1 (I think they showed his wounded escape in one of the graphic novels).
It IS worse than Prison Break by Brock Samson	Oct 13th, 2008 10:44:15 AM
Prison Break has better actors, a story that moves forward, and the show embraces it's over the top craziness which Heroes is unable to do. Plus, Prison Break has William Fitchner, which automatically makes it a better show.
Also, Heroes is horrible, not just "not as good as" Season 1 by Brock Samson	Oct 13th, 2008 10:46:45 AM
Exhibit A is Future Peter's acting last week. Exhibit B is how no one remembers they have powers when they most need to. Exhibit C is Future Claire's acting last week. Exhibit D is the absurd notion that Syler is a Petrelli and that he should ever be let outside of a prison.
Robert Forster? by Klytus_I.m_Bored	Oct 13th, 2008 10:50:26 AM
Motherfucker was in The Black Hole! Heroes sucks now but I'll watch for him.
HERC, DITCH THIS TALKBACK, REPLACE WITH SUPERNATURAL. by Shermdawg	Oct 13th, 2008 10:51:22 AM

And again... by Psynapse	Oct 13th, 2008 10:51:26 AM
The ratings are sliding faster than cake down a fat kid's throat.
Wait... by Klytus_I.m_Bored	Oct 13th, 2008 10:52:15 AM
Didn't anyone else make the connection about black holes in Heroes and Robert Forster?
PUT A FORK IN IT by wash	Oct 13th, 2008 10:52:19 AM
If you keep watching it you are only emboldening people that make shitty shows.
And btw... by Shermdawg	Oct 13th, 2008 10:54:45 AM
Don't hop in and say they've got a SUPERNATURAL thread going in The Zone, because 1.It's a different community, and 2.It's nowhere to be found. If it's not on the first three pages of Coaxial (which it wasn't the last time I checked), it's long dead. There's a demand for one here though.
Brock Samson by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 10:57:27 AM
Coleman, Rose, McDowell, Quinto - Fichtner is but one man. Heroes might not always entertain you guys, but the show has some amazing actors.
Sylar in the hallway by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 10:58:45 AM
He can stop bullets with Telekinesis. That is what he did. But he was surprised by them, and the impact sent him flying backwards.
And regarding Heroes... by Shermdawg	Oct 13th, 2008 10:59:41 AM
No matter how bad it gets, it never comes close to the levels of recent Smallville in terms of disrespect to the viewers. Last week's intergalactic hussy was a bad move when they're so desperately trying to cling to the fans that are ready to jump ship after the only good things regarding the series have left. They should've at least kept John Glover.
Shermdawg by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 10:59:43 AM
Sir, do you not agree there should be a thread for both shows. It's not going to kill Herc to get off his ass and have a Supernatural thread on Thursdays.
Shermdawg by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:00:45 AM
John Glover is an amazing, amazing actor. I tell ya, with him, Rosenbaum and Mack Smallville could have the worst plots and I'd watch. Now Glover and Rosenbaum are gone, and Mack's turned into a fucking deus ex machina.
re: S3 is as good/bad as S1 by veritasses	Oct 13th, 2008 11:00:55 AM
Season one certainly had it's share of problems but it also had redeeming qualities that served to offset it's issues. There were also high expectations that the payoff/showdown at the end would be fantastic and that the show would improve over time. Unfortunately, anything that was good about S1 all but disappeared and the problems grew to levels no one expected.
Brock by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:02:29 AM
I'd agree amnesia is a crutch IF IT WASN'T ESTABLISHED THAT A CHARACTER COULD MESS WITH PEOPLE'S MINDS. The amnesia was not convenient, it was intentionally done to the character by another character. That should not be allowed to be used as a criticism of the show, period!
Mr. Zeddemore, Quinto is NOT an "amazing" actor. by Shermdawg	Oct 13th, 2008 11:02:29 AM
His delivery before going nuclear last week was weak.
Bravo, Brock. by seanny_d	Oct 13th, 2008 11:02:53 AM
I couldn't have said it better myself. And to those saying that the writing has been this bad since season 1, yeah, you're probably right. But season 1 not only was it fresh, but there was no back story. Now, the stories exist inclusive of those that came before. So bad writing piles on top of its bad writing, becoming crushed upon the weight of its own poor writing. And yes, Hiro calling Nathan a "villain" may have been enough to get him to save Peter, but that doesn't explain how everyone who was at Kirby Plaza wouldn't have been there in the future world. Hiro didn't do anything about that. I don't stop watching because I really want them to turn things around. I won't give up just yet, because I want them to look into making things a little more consistent. Do it, Kring. Do it!
Mr. Zeddemore by Shermdawg	Oct 13th, 2008 11:03:56 AM
Not only will it not kill Herc, but it will garner more clicks. So it's a win-win situation.
Shermdawg by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:04:30 AM
Maybe amazing is stretching it, but the guy is managing to take some slightly off writing (Gabriel Petrelli) and raise it to a decent level... and he's capable of playing multiple sides of the same character.
Shermdawg by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:05:37 AM
Aye. I've never actually watched Supernatural, but I can't believe Smallville gets threads and that doesn't. At this stage, it appears that Supernatural is geekier than Smallville.
seanny_d by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:08:00 AM
They all, in their own ways, helped save the world. I could go into detail, but if Matt hadn't met Peter in Odessa... if Claire hadn't found out Nathan was her Father... if Niki hadn't met Nathan - the world would have ended.
anchorite by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:08:53 AM
I'm still pissed Chloe and Clark are dancing around their relationship. For God's sake Clark, Chloe is flat-out awesome... why are you still pining for that crazy bint Lana?
Is the special guest... by ChezKing	Oct 13th, 2008 11:13:01 AM
that annoying actor from that Battlestar Galactica show? I think it is. What's his name. He was also in Stand and Deeeliver....ha ha ha...
Check out the Philly Daily News/Inquirer website for KB by Pennsy	Oct 13th, 2008 11:14:41 AM
goodness (don't know how long it'll be posted, but enjoy) http://www.philly.com/
Pennsy by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:16:41 AM
Stay cool, sir. My sources inform my KB will be back in a few episodes. And, from what I've gathered, it might not be a cast-iron exit from the show.
@ Pennsy by ChezKing	Oct 13th, 2008 11:18:27 AM
What are we supposed to enjoy at that link? I am not sure what I am supposed to look for.
On the one hand, I totally agree with the Idiot plot criticism by hst666	Oct 13th, 2008 11:24:08 AM
On the one hand, I totally agree with the idiot plot criticism. It doesn't feel like the writers know who these characters are and are just writing with the plot in mind. On the other hand, why is shit like Smallville still on after 7 seasons of sucking?
I don't like the plotholes anymore than the rest of you by Dapper Swindler	Oct 13th, 2008 11:28:01 AM
But there are only about 4 shows I still watch on tv (and Lost is on hiatus), so I'll stick with it.
ChezKing, the DN today had an interview iwth Bell by Pennsy	Oct 13th, 2008 11:30:14 AM
Mostly on the Forgetting Sarah Marshall DVD (and a tidbit of Heroes tossed in). She's the top story on Philly.com right now, or at least when I posted 10 minutes ago. Here's the interview: http://tinyurl.com/3udbko
"Iwth"? by Pennsy	Oct 13th, 2008 11:31:03 AM
Lookie, all, I invented a new word on Columbus Day! rolls eyes at self
Hey Pennsy by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:35:22 AM
Rewatched Forgetting Sarah Marshall, I'm stunned Bell isn't a star off of that.
Smackfu... by TheKappa	Oct 13th, 2008 11:37:54 AM
Good theory on Future Peter / Sylar. As mentioned by others, Sylar can freeze stuff and likely used telekinesis to stop Parkman's bullets. As much as I want to believe that they have things this well thought out, they DON'T. Hell, idiot boy Tim Kring didn't even start work on a series bible (As per far superior writer Damon Lindelof's insistence) until the lull provided by the writers strike last year. Yeah, you read that right- he didn't have a plan in place for the series until the third season. I want Heroes to be a good show again just as much as everyone. But face it- it hasn't been decent since the endgame of season 1.
sucks by El Cimarron	Oct 13th, 2008 11:39:26 AM
I'll say it again: This show sucks.
Yer preaching to the choir, Zeddemore... by Pennsy	Oct 13th, 2008 11:39:27 AM
Yes.:) Offtopic, Megan Fox - cotton candy. Kristen Bell; full-course dinner; http://tinyurl.com/4quw27
Show Bible by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:39:41 AM
While there should've been one, I think it's odd that such anger is being thrown at Kring. The show is Volume based, it's not one huge overarching mythology. There's cross-over, but seasons mostly stand alone.
sucks 2 by El Cimarron	Oct 13th, 2008 11:39:58 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: This show sucks
Bell by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:40:44 AM
I saw an interview she did on Leno - I usually don't say this about actresses, but she can do a few million degrees better than that ass-clown she's with.
Oh, and: by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:41:39 AM
1x10 hints that Gabriel was adopted. He talks about being special and hoping someone would take him away in a VERY similar way to Claire. And she turned out to be Nathan's daughter.
As for FSM, Dr. Z, $17.2m in DVD sales its first week... by Pennsy	Oct 13th, 2008 11:46:38 AM
http://tinyurl.com/3eomt9.
Pennsy by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 11:48:13 AM
Nice. First time I watched it, I sort of liked it. Second time was at the University bar, and it killed. It absolutely killed. Every punchline got a huge laugh.
Pennsy by FuckMichaelBay	Oct 13th, 2008 11:54:09 AM
GO PHILLIES!
The problem with Heroes by Reverend Toast	Oct 13th, 2008 11:54:24 AM
The plot is driven by the characters decisions, it should be the other way around.
I will never watch this show... by emeraldboy	Oct 13th, 2008 12:06:33 PM
ever again. Terrible. Great first season. Lousy Second season. and this. zzzzz....Lost cant come back soon enough.
I Also detest.... by emeraldboy	Oct 13th, 2008 12:12:57 PM
Prison Break. Season one was the best. Then that bitch gretchen turns up. off turns goes my tv. The actress who plays her should play cat woman. Second season of PB is when it shit.
DONE...I'm out too. by jambone	Oct 13th, 2008 12:20:18 PM
Dead after the 1st season finale blew.
Also, a K-Bell interrview with the UK's Guardian newspaper by Pennsy	Oct 13th, 2008 12:20:32 PM
http://tinyurl.com/3n3rev, and here's the money quote. "Elle's future with Heroes is uncertain, though, thanks to the "strange and loving handshake deal" Bell enjoys with the producers: she wants to stay, they want her to, but because of "a wave in my career that I'm not sure I'll ever get again" she's pretty much allowed to come and go as she pleases. That's pretty nightmarish for Heroes' writers but it's little wonder they want to keep her on board; this wave in Bell's career is seeing her occupy a kind of Alan Dale status as the go-to girl for securing a televisual hit." sigh
Season 1 wasn't that great by Xiphos_2	Oct 13th, 2008 12:38:35 PM
It had like 6 or 7 top flight episodes that kept folks watching but between them were many episodes littered with all the problems that plauge Heroes on full display. Hell even the good episodes had the same problems. The biggest diffrence between season 1 and 3, the loss of Bryan Fuller and no sense of danger to the characters or suspenful ending to some episodes. Its very pedestrian now, more so then season 1.
time travel in the show just makes it very hard to watch by Bob C. Cock	Oct 13th, 2008 12:50:15 PM
it's frustrating when some characters are so over-powered that the writers seem to be racking their brains to find ways to keep them from using their powers (amnesiac peter, peter-in-the-bad-guy-in-jail, the haitian, not freezing time when future claire is trying to kill you). there are actually times when i yell at the TV, i just hope it gets more manageable. PS, get rid of parkman and nikki/tracy/jessica, it's awful, awful stuff.
The Nuke should have gone off by aedude01	Oct 13th, 2008 01:00:20 PM
At the end of season 1. This would have allowed them to kill off the worthless characters, kill of Sylar in an awesome epic battle, and provide a plot for Season 2. (Heroes being hunted by the US gov.) As it is now, the show is one huge Epic Fail of dropped plot points. What happened to the Irish Chick? What happened to the flying boy Clare was dating, surely he still lives up the street from her. Yea he wasn't a great character, but there was potential there. Etc. Let this season be its last. Even when 24 stumbled in season 2, it recovered quite a bit in season 3.
nrn by Unnatural	Oct 13th, 2008 01:07:21 PM
Yeah, the writing has been the same it's always been since Heroes Season 1 BECAUSE IT'S ALL STOLEN FROM COMIC BOOKS. I watched S1 and S2 and the first few episodes of S3. I don't support plagarists. Period. You shouldn't either. Never read a comic book my ass.
The show isn't that much different than Season 1.... by LastDragon	Oct 13th, 2008 01:07:45 PM
...and that's a large part of the problem. Season 2 and Season 3 are the plots as Season 1, with a few tweaks. That's why the characters have been forced into idiot mode, they don't drive the plot, they are shoehorned into it. The only character progression is seeing the 'darker' future versions of characters, which is just the character done 90's Image style. This also leaves them without any more genuine plot surprises, so they have to fake them like Sylar as Nathan and Peter's brother. Initially it seems like a "Ohhhhhh" moment, except they didn't build to it all; its just because somebody decided that all Heroes are related to the originals or artificially created. The second major problem is that there is absolutely no sense of finality to the show. There isn't a sense of danger because they have proven that they won't kill off any of the main Heroes, even though they tease it. How many time has Nathan been 'killed'? Peter, Claire, and Sylar are pretty much immortal. Ali Larter can be part of a quintuplet for all that we know. The painter is dead, but it doesn't matter since Peter, Sylar and now (through the power of drugs)anybody can possess that ability. Worst of all, you know that the prior season will be negated by the current season. They did the build with Adam as the mastermind, culminating in what Hiro did to him. Except now, of course, there's another mastermind behind everything. And Hiro, who despite driving Adam down an evil path with his infidelity; and who had to travel a dark path of his own finding a solution on how to deal with Adam, is Happy Hiro again. Then this week he digs Adam up, for no good reason as the episode preview this week states that Adam doesn't know the answer. The biggest problem with the show, obviously, is how they (don't) deal with the time travel issues. They really should have left as Hiro's ability alone, it would have been logical that traveling back time to fix every problem would have been against his moral code. But they didn't, they gave the ability to Peter as well. Then they had Hiro change the past, killing any qualms that he might have had. So now there really is no explanation on why Hiro or Peter could not travel back at will to fix things. This is a big black hole of a logic and reasoning problem, with numerous examples. The most recent would be Future Peter. When it becomes apparent that he screwed up the future even more when he shot Nathan, there is nothing offered to the audience to explain why He doesn't go back in time. The Future Future Peter could have just told Future Peter that shooting Nathan would make things worse.The writers strictly use time traveling to fit their own needs, and the transparency of it is killing the show. Before the trolls come out in force, bear in mind that I like the show and that's why am so frustrated by it.
This seasons plot... by aedude01	Oct 13th, 2008 01:12:04 PM
Should have been the Heroes trying to stop an old angry white man from becoming President.
Why I watch, even though it sucks... by cdubbs727	Oct 13th, 2008 01:13:11 PM
Heroes is a show with a fantastic premise and a lot of potential that is being destroyed by way too many characters and writers who have no idea what is going on. I thought the pace of season 1 was pretty perfect, balancing suspense and action. Then season 2 began to drag...now season 3 is moving too fast. There is so much repetition going on--traveling through time to prevent the end of the world (again), HRG wanting to kill Sylar and Sylar wanting to hurt Claire (again), the stupid drawings that tell the future (the lamest plot device ever?). I think it's obvious that, unlike Lost, Kring and his co-writers have no clue where Heroes is ultimately heading. So maybe it's time to tone down the whole overarching mythology and the self-seriousness of the show. Here's what they need to do: kill off about half of the characters. Seriously, we could do without Nathan, Mama Petrelli, Ando, Nikki, Parkman, Mohninder, Maya, Molly, Alex and a few others. Then, scale back the whole mythology. Have some episodes actually be stand-alones where there is one story that the heroes must accomplish that week. You can pepper the mythology in a bit, but give it more of an X-Files balance, where stand-alone episodes are accessible as well. Retcon it so that there is no ability to time travel or steal powers and make it so that when you kill a character, that character actually stays dead. Finally, pay whatever money you need to to ensure that Noah and Sylar never leave the show, as they are the two characters who are consistently intriguing and fun to watch.
bacci40 by HellKing	Oct 13th, 2008 01:30:47 PM
Nielsen ratings are no different and works with smaller samples that represents the entire US. Heroes is aimed at the Comic Con type viewer. I'm not a Heroes fan just like I don't masturbate over Battlestar Galactica like apparently many fanboys do but there seems to be a following with pitiful ratings at the same time. SO there seems to be a flaw on how accurate their figures are when it comes to real viewership.
Comic Book by NudeandAroused	Oct 13th, 2008 01:36:57 PM
This show is a comic book. It has the same type of writing and characters as a comic. It is not "Mad Men," or "The Wire," or even ""Dexter." To complain, and it is a ludicrous point, that the flying is "unrealistic," I think misses the intent of the show. i am sure that there are some out there who were looking for "realistic" views of people flying, changing time, becoming invisible, becoming super strong and countless others. Please let me know when you find them. This is a comic book. This isn't serious. It isn't supposed to be realistic. The world is falling apart, chill out and enjoy the show.
never go full nuke by g-ride9000	Oct 13th, 2008 01:37:42 PM

Zeddemore, about the amnesia... by Brock Samson	Oct 13th, 2008 01:42:14 PM
The only reason the Haitian (another poorly drawn character who is either good or bad, depending on what the plot requires) zapped Peter's brain and stuck him in the shipping container was to allow him to...to...wait I have no idea why he gave him amnesia since he remembered everything eventually, and his amnesia just served to make him "doubt himself" so he could be duped by Adam like the 12 year old intellect he is. Or maybe it was so he could have those terrifically exciting adventures in Ireland and leave his temporary girlfriend to be erased in the future. Because that was just awesome.
"Comic Book" Excuse is a Crude Joke by Brock Samson	Oct 13th, 2008 01:48:09 PM
Has anyone noticed that the quality of most Comic Book based films is pretty high these days? Hellboy, Iron Man, the rebooted Batman franchise? First 2 Spiderman films? These are comic stories that while fantastic don't have huge plot holes or invent things on the fly. They are well written and acted. You can no longer say "It's just a comic book, relax!". The show was marketed differently. It started out reasonably well written. Now it's almost self-parody, and while I love to watch how stupid it is, that shouldn't be the goal of the writers.
Stop with the Saving the World, already by chromedome	Oct 13th, 2008 01:48:53 PM
Let's have Heroes who ACT like Heroes--character development, and no more Idiot Plots: the downfall of Stargate Atlantis was it's reliance on Idiot Plots: the characters had to act like idiots every episode to get into trouble, then act like geniuses within the hour to get out of it. Each week was Rinse, Repeat. Comic book energy in Heroes is welcome, but the idea that BECAUSE it is comic-book-like it can just be stupid is the fundamental flaw here. We are over the novelty and newness we were feeling in Season 1, and now we want content. So many lost opportunities in Season 2 (When Peter finally opened the Box, for example, it should have contained misleading information: told him he was Sylar, etc., something!). S3 does not seem to be about reversing the downward trend of S2.
Stay in the present. by seanny_d	Oct 13th, 2008 01:51:48 PM
I think so many of the issues with Heroes could be forgiven if they just STAYED IN THE PRESENT. Don't fuck around jumping back and forth between time making things completely unnecessarily complicated. You have some good guys. You have some bad guys. The bad guys are trying to do something bad, then the good guys figure out what that is and stop it. IN THE PRESENT.
Kill Peter, Save the Show by PirateEmery	Oct 13th, 2008 01:54:50 PM
Whenever you create a character that is so completely powerful that only his own idiocy stops him from achieving his goals, that character needs to go. He seriously went to the future to get a power that is unnecessary if you can understand the basic principle of cause and effect. You can't steal an ability that is nothing but moderate intelligence. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand the cause and effect of altering things in the past and future. So, I'm still wondering why he needed to get the ability of a brain surgeon!
For all the "Kristen Bell will save us" guys... by PirateEmery	Oct 13th, 2008 02:10:50 PM
We'll be able to test your theory in a couple weeks. She's in 307.
Yay by I am_NOTREAL	Oct 13th, 2008 02:45:27 PM
I was getting damn tired of that Hayden Panettiere. Nothing against her personally, but the anointment of her as some kinda star on the basis of one moderately successful season of a show was irritatingly premature.
3rd season >2nd, by Toonol	Oct 13th, 2008 02:51:22 PM
Will that title get past the html filter? Hmm... Heroes is still one of three shows I regularly watch; all of them are on Monday, coincidentally. Heroes makes all sorts of terrible mistakes, but it's still an addictive watch, in my opinion.
Nope by Toonol	Oct 13th, 2008 02:52:46 PM
my post title was eaten. It was "3rd season greater than 2nd, less than 2nd."
Nope by Toonol	Oct 13th, 2008 02:52:50 PM
my post title was eaten. It was "3rd season greater than 2nd, less than 2nd."
Sylar saving Peter's ass in a couple episodes... by PirateEmery	Oct 13th, 2008 02:56:55 PM
Apparently in 307 also, Sylar is tasked with saving Pete from a "rival company." Once they reveal Sylar as being the true main character of this show, I will say that this show has either crossed into another plane of badass or made the biggest shark-jump in TV history.
Last Week Was Pretty Badass... by El Fuego	Oct 13th, 2008 03:11:01 PM
it's still stupid as hell, but at least some cool stuff happened and that's a lot more than we can say for Season 2 and I think they started to do some good work on framing the season's plotlines, showing what the formula will do, etc. I give it 3 more episodes to start bringing in a coherent arc and start showing more character development... then I'll start watching How I Met Your Mother as it airs instead of TiVoing (seriously, it's a really great sitcom. NPH is very good in it.)
Heroes is at its worse... by CCon99	Oct 13th, 2008 03:11:30 PM
And it's still better then 90% of everything else on TV, including Herc's beloved teeniebopper shows.
I gotta agree with a few things here. by gotilk	Oct 13th, 2008 03:14:41 PM
1. Fitchner. ALWAYS great.(But prison break is still really, really bad in my opinion) 2. Supernatural DOES deserve a talkback. 3. I would take Journeyman back again over Heroes any day, any season. ... still like Heroes though.
mindless sheep by bigbill	Oct 13th, 2008 03:43:54 PM
You know, I have been enjoying Heroes. Now I must stop and hate it...
So... by a rolling stone	Oct 13th, 2008 03:46:37 PM
will they ever get off the island? OH wait. Wrong TB.
Tons of great shows out there by frozen01	Oct 13th, 2008 03:51:08 PM
I always hate hearing that "there's nothing good on TV", "there's nothing but reality shows on TV" and all that. Seriously, there's a good deal of pretty entertaining television out there, and so many different ways of getting it, that if you're bored on any given evening it's your own fault. House, Daily Show, Colbert Report, Dirty Jobs, Mythbusters, Eli Stone (a show I'm just getting into), Weeds, Dexter, The Tudors, Eureka, Battlestar Gallactica... the list goes on and on, and includes some pretty unique and well-written shows. Hell, I'd even take Lost or Sarah Connor Chronicles over Heroes. If you've already watched those or it's a night they're not on, get yourself a Blockbuster membership or something and rent some older TV shows. May I recommend: John Adams, West Wing, Firefly, Carnivale... and so on.
characters by frozen01	Oct 13th, 2008 03:53:56 PM
Someone said really, really early in the talkback that it would be better if Heroes got rid of some of the characters, and that I agree with. There are too many of them to have any sort of emotional investment in, and without that the show isn't much of anything.
Main Character by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 04:07:08 PM
It should be Hiro. If you'll notice, he doesn't fuck about with time. He sees what happens, then he tries to fix it in the present. Just ditch the goofyness, have Hiro not travel in time unless he has to, and mature him.
Brock Samson by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 04:15:05 PM
I'm not saying the Irish storyline was good, I'm just saying that the show set a precedent for who can give people amnesia. It's like complaining about the Magic Blood - it's just creating a precedent so that when people are revived, it isn't some bullshit 'Oh, the Island brought him back to life' cop-out.
Wiki by NudeandAroused	Oct 13th, 2008 04:22:05 PM
Are you seriously quoting Wikipedia to prove a point? Really?
Huh? by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 04:26:00 PM
Who quoted Wiki?
Where's the Degrassi Talkback? by seanny_d	Oct 13th, 2008 04:26:09 PM
I mean, what the hell! A new season started this past weekend and NOTHING. We need our Degrassi. Truly.
Mmmm.... by Audio_of_Being	Oct 13th, 2008 04:27:48 PM
BSG's "Six of One" episode was on CityTV last night. I once thought Heroes could be that good. I really did. Of course, maybe, like some have said, it's just got the Lost slump syndrome. Maybe the writers will pull their heads out of their asses like the Lost crew did?
Heroes by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 04:31:36 PM
Aye, what Audio said. We've only just started to get the seasonal arcs sorted (the villains and Mohinder's Formula appear to be red herrings.)
Black Holes by viks	Oct 13th, 2008 04:51:48 PM
The level 5 character is going to use the power of the Higgs Boson for evil instead of good!
Herc and the haters by Bramton1	Oct 13th, 2008 04:59:14 PM
Herc, if you hate the show, stop posting on it. Stop trying to convince me that's it's shit. I get the message. You hate it. Yeah, the effects aren't the greatest. Guess what? The economy's in the shitter. Of course effects budgets are getting cut! Also, you're at the point now where you only see the bad. The next episode could be the equivilant of The Godfather and you'll only see the flaws. I see a show that's not great, but it's entertaining and I'd much rather watch this than "Who Wants to Be an Olympian Bobsledder?" So enough with your weekly rants on how much Heroes sucks. At 9pm tonight (or whatever time it's on in your timezone), go watch Buffy and leave those that might actually enjoy the show the fuck alone.
Mr. Zeddemore by NudeandAroused	Oct 13th, 2008 05:12:22 PM
Herc quoted Wikipedia. My point was that Wikipedia is not a source to quote from if you are trying to make a point.
On the plus side by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 05:12:29 PM
Lego Batman is FUCKING AWESOME!
Whatever happened to those heroes ? by G100	Oct 13th, 2008 05:17:50 PM
Whatever happened to all the heroes? All the Shakespearoes? They watched their Rome burn Whatever happened to the heroes? Whatever happened to the heroes? No more heroes any more No more heroes any more
Ah by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 05:30:01 PM
Very true. I like Wikipedia, but it's hardly fact.
heroes by johnnysunshine	Oct 13th, 2008 05:41:37 PM
I still really enjoy Heroes, but the characters do seem a bit dim this season. I'm mostly thinking of Peter. When he was running from Claire as she shot at him last week I was yelling "You can stop bullets! And you can stop time! And you can fly!"
Where be Vegas Ron? We need all hands on deck! by Pennsy	Oct 13th, 2008 05:56:58 PM
;)
I jumped ship after the 2 hour series premiere by AlwaysThere	Oct 13th, 2008 06:20:19 PM
I must say that I'm better off because of it.
The Magic Blood IS dumber than anything on Lost by Brock Samson	Oct 13th, 2008 06:31:32 PM
C'mon zeddemore, you think the "magic blood" which apparently only works when the writers need it to is a GOOD precedent? It's emblematic of the plot before character problem with the show. And the amnesia was another horrible precedent to set. You're defending this is a good thing? Amnesia is one of the most cliched fallbacks out there. Gee, it's great they set it up as a potential recurring theme! "The Island did It" has not been the answer on Lost, ever. Especially since so much about the island is still shrouded in mystery. To people wondering why we hate and still watch, as I said earlier, the total lack of self-awareness and self-seriousness of the show is reaching new levels of hilarity. It's fun to pick the idiocy apart.
johnny sunshine by hst666	Oct 13th, 2008 06:33:11 PM
The Haitian was right there.
nudeandaroused by hst666	Oct 13th, 2008 06:35:56 PM
Saying it's just a comic book and not the Wire and Mad Men is the soft bigotry of low expectations in action. Why can't it be. Or at least, why can't it not have gaping plot holes. Buffy, for example, was a much more sophisticated superhero show.
I forget how to use question marks. by hst666	Oct 13th, 2008 06:36:26 PM

Brock by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 06:36:48 PM
Um, whuh? Everytime Magic Blood has been used, it's worked. Now if you had said 'they only use it when it's convenient', that'd be a valid criticism that I couldn't defend. As for Lost, I find idiocy in that that's mind-blowing. Like Mikhail dying a half dozen times, and repeatedly coming back to life with idiotic 'it wasn't on full capacity' rationales.
hst666 by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 06:38:31 PM
Yeah, I think parts of Buffy are flat-out terrible.
I can't explain it...but I still love the show by BadMrWonka	Oct 13th, 2008 06:39:14 PM
I will watch every single episode of this show until it is cancelled, or goes off the air for some other reason. I agree with the haters about a lot of the frustrating plot points. a lot of things don't make sense. there are way too many characters. the time travel is logically shoddy sometimes. the regeneration of nearly every character except Isaac is a little bit of a cop out. after Bryan Fuller left, they haven't been able to properly sling a cliffhanger at us and make it feel right. but I can't explain it. I will never leave. I will watch it every week and buy every DVD. hey, it's still better than Lost...
people, at least stick to LEGITIMATE complaints by BadMrWonka	Oct 13th, 2008 06:43:08 PM
there are a gret many legitimate complaints about the show, but there are lots of times where people perceive lazy writing and illogical character motivations, because of lazy watching. maybe that means there's too much going on the show, or to many characters, and that's a valid criticism, but so many times, people just miss important points, forget things, or completely misinterpret important plot points, and then say things like, "Why didn't Claire just fly to Japan, she can fly, duh!" it is SO frustrating, because it just gets piled onto a heap of complaints, and no one has the time or inclination to correct and clarify each mistaken point like we used to back when the talkbacks were 90% supportive and 10% haters (9% was Jimmy_009 all by himself). so do me a favor, OK? make sure you're not an idiot before you point out mistakes. there are plenty out there to find, you don't need to make any up.
Wonka by Mr. Zeddemore	Oct 13th, 2008 06:48:34 PM
Man, me and you HATE Lost, eh?
yeah, I just thought it was like crack by BadMrWonka	Oct 13th, 2008 06:56:15 PM
just get people to have some fun at the beginning (I'm sure crack is fun the first few times) and they'll keep coming back, and eventually, they'll have no reason to come back (like a fucked up crackhead has no reason to keep doing crack), but they won't be able to stop. it really is like crack. (except no one ever has to suck dick for Lost...at least I hope not.) it's truly idiotic, but because so many people are addicted to it, it is ascribed some sort of cultural significance. well guess what? millions of people watch dancing with the d-list retards as well. it doesn't mean it's a meaningful or worthwhile show. where is the West Wing when you need it?

Talkbacks

Somebody’s Dad Turns Up On Tonight’s HEROES!! Too Late??